Thread:RABNerd VP/@comment-43984080-20191001075131/@comment-39066032-20191104034933

Hello, I've received an email on this and I will give you a direct response on TV Tropes when I have the time. Before I begin, I will seriously have to question how you claim you're not stalking me when you're mentioning multiple accounts in different places. Nor have I harassed any individuals over this, though I have been harassed many times before - like, why does this guy get in a Discord server to screenshot me but decides to ignore everyone else with similar opinions to single me out? Particularly, my personal tastes mean little regarding my edits, as mentioned above I barely changed much besides noticing the changes in the Netflix release. Note I didn't write most of the Kawoshin or Asushin articles here, like you for some reason assume. I don't care much for Reishin but it's certainly a very relevant ship so of course it warrants an article, which I did write.

Now, I am not trying to offend you, but I really think it is necesssary to make some more research if one thinks there is a widespread consesus over *anything* in the Eva fandom *at large*, which is very, very diverse. You've mentioned Evageeks, try to see how popular Kaworu is there, for instance. Of course there are people who see Kawoshin as canon and irrefutable, much like there are people who believe Asuka fused with Misato and Rei by EoE because of the colour of her eyes in an early VHS master (like her former voice actress). However, if we are going to try and represent things at large, we really should include those very disparate and very common viewpoints. Naturally most Kaworu fans will have fairly uniform opinions however since his character is almost completely centered around Shinji. My personal preferences have nothing to do with my edits since I am not in any way invalidating any possibility, so much as bringing attention to the fact that the series is open-ended, which is something you can find people agree on everywhere. On the contrary, in the past, there *were* several edits back and forth removing official sources, denying Shinji even *liking* any other character, claiming plainly incorrectly facts about the story (in regard to lore, stated goals and such) making poor usage of "canon" sources, like specific video games routes being used as proof when those games featured multiple other sources, arguing that Shinji even hates Asuka or Rei or Misato, deleting entire paragraphs at a time, etc. I have seen it multiple times. I don't know why you have the impression that most of my edits are regarding Kawoshin as I have made made lots of different contributions to the wikis. Hell, I have even toned down some of these shippy Asushin excerpts when it's stuff that claims to be just reinstating canon.

Nor am I trying to deny your right to your own interpretation, but the ambiguous nature of the text, which is something that can be found echoed in all sorts of Evangelion places (and strongly defended by Anno and other creators in multiple interviews) - you've mentioned the subreddit, try seeing how often it gets K/S posts outside of the 2-3 months after the Netflix release which obviously brought attention to it. Even the thread you've linked is divided even though at the time there was a lot of interest naturally generated by the alterations in the Netflix release relative to ADV Platinum. However, there is I think a single K/S thread with even more than 900 upvotes compared to dozens for A/S and R/S, which is just the one about the line change, posted when the subreddit was obviously at an all-time high level of activity with the Netflix release, which is much less when compared to how often AxS or Rxs or MxS posts show up and how much attention they get on average. That ambiguity is also present in the rest of TV Tropes dealing with other aspects of the show, is a crucial part of it. Hell, I have seen a bunch of other pages on TV Tropes which are unnecesarily shippy of Asushin or Reishin for that matter, there's even have stuff saying they are in love in pages that aren't even about romance, but K/S is largely only mentioned in tropes or sections connected to queer subjects (often as YMMV), though Asuka/Rei/Misato/Mari/Mana with Shinji are mentioned much more frequently in relationship tropes, narrative tropes, character tropes etc. I have seen more mentions of Asushin and Reishin in *Fan Works* sections alone than Kawoshin mentions in Anime and Manga ones.

I can easily take random examples of people being more negative about Kawoshin just as well. Here's one, for instance, that got far more upvotes than your example even if it was published more than a year ago when that subreddit didn't have a third of the activity: https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/7ourvu/unpopular_opinion_kaworu_never_cared_for_shinji/

When talking about TV Tropes, you yourself mentioned that "the wiki" is divided,though this is clearly not a very equal divide if we take the *volume* of entries mentioning it (though why then you say that "most of us accept it"?). I don't know why in your PM you talked for TV Tropes as a whole either when the clean-up thread you've mentioned is literally just you talking about it and trying to make these changes (and 2 years ago someone mentioning someone mentioning if it could be misuse of the trope). You even mention alternate continuities, and while sure enough that is relevant to the franchise as a whole, using those as proof of canonicity is silly when Kaworu is available as an option in a handful of games among many others or is just played for laughs only to dissapear later (Shinji Ikari Raising Project) or to have Shinji turn down Kaworu to stay with Asuka anyway (Angelic Days). Also happens in GoS2, Puchi Eva, etc. Does this means Asuka/Shinji is canon, for that matter? Of course not, merchandise exists to sell stuff, and Anno is very frank about this, which is why there is also a lot of Reishin, Misashin, or Kaworei and Asurei, just to name the more popular ones. And then you have Sadamoto telling people multiple times that the manga is just his own project and separate from the anime or Rebuilds.

If you must know though, Eva as a franchise is not that focused on shipping even if the spin-ofs are mostly just Shinji having a harem composed of pretty much everyone (Misato is just turned into an outright pedophile, Asuka is a standard lovestruck tsundere, Rei is a moe girl, etc), but I don't think there's enough of it as a whole to justify a separate Ship Tease page, not at the least because the spin-offs are generally of rather poor quality and not super well known, particularly in the West.

For instance, in the past, before 3.0, several Reishin shippers were absolutely certain their pairing was going to be endgame, though of course that did not happen in the following movie. Does that mean they should just get mad at Anno or other sections of the fanbase for not agreeing with them? And many of them did get mad. You can find posts expressing that with some regularity on the subreddit. In fact, Rei was beloved for the very same reasons of being a physical goddess (to a much larger degree than Kaworu) and providing Shinji with unconditional affection. Official merch also pairs them together sometimes, for that matter. Rei was *so popular* for this she became a pop culture icon by herself - see ReiAyanamiExpy on TV Tropes, even though Anno has openly expressed his indifference towards her and even dissatisfaction at her popularity.

Which isn't surprising, because Evangelion is a massively succesful franchise in Japan (and not just some cult classic) and almost evrything about it is hugely influential. Asuka is a massive Tsundere influence, Shinji was copied too. Kaworu is just one of many tips of this iceberg. Evangelion itself was endlessly copied and served as inspiration in all its aspects (see RahXephon for one of the most blatant examples). Even so, Anno responded to it differently to what untold millions of Rei fans wanted. Just because someone has an interpretation it doesn't make it canon. Nor is the show, or any wiki, required to conform to anyone's interpretations because that's what they'd like. Should I say caressing Shinji and saying "kimochi warui" means Asuka hating Shinji or loving Shinji because that scene and the language used is ambiguous, just as Kaworu's scenes are, as I'm sure you know? I've seen those interpretations everywhere.

Once again, it being *ambiguous* does not remove any possibility (which was also what the Kawoshin article was saying before), it just means that the show is open-ended as it is on all of its aspects, much like Shinji's relationship with Rei, Asuka or Misato is heavily debated. Now, should we cater to these Reishin shippers who feel "betrayed", or just reflect what canon says? Again, you have yourself mentioned that TVTropes is divided, so I don't think it is correct to make edits that just express one opinion while invalidating the other. We need to take everyone into account, and I just think we should reflect all of that, and include it in our edits. Thank you.